15:51:50	 From mike hales to All panelists : Hi ;)  i don’t seem to have the normal controls - audio, video,gallery display. Wiil this change when the meeting starts?
15:54:35	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley : Hi Mike - no, this will be slightly different as it webinar
15:55:38	 From Ferran Reyes : hi
15:59:24	 From Dil Green : Hi
16:00:00	 From mike hales to All panelists : Hi Dil, everybody
16:00:39	 From Nenad Maljkovic to All panelists : Why don't you just use Zoom Meetings instead of Webinars ):
16:00:54	 From Graham Mitchell to All panelists : Hi everyone.
16:01:02	 From Mario Yanez to All panelists : We have no mic to unmute
16:01:39	 From Lu Yen Roloff to All panelists : Hi Stacco! Lu Yen here :)
16:01:47	 From Stacco Troncoso to All panelists : Hi!
16:01:48	 From Elias Crim to All panelists : Sorry, don't see an unmute button option.
16:01:56	 From Nenad Maljkovic to All panelists : I only have chat and raise hand availble, no audio.
16:02:12	 From mike hales to All panelists : Hi, Bob, Lynn
16:02:26	 From Elias Crim to All panelists : OK got it
16:02:47	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uRqOQSq2KDmgPtbML3-MCQpSyw4ucNkEOgBMZQ9sZ1k/edit#
16:04:26	 From Nenad Maljkovic to All panelists : WW = chat signal for silent applause (for Stacco)
16:05:05	 From Graham Mitchell to All panelists : How many people are here?
16:05:31	 From Nenad Maljkovic : WW = chat signal for silent applause (Stacco just mentioned). 

Give him feedback so he knows there are friendly people on the other end of screen :) 
16:06:01	 From Graham Mitchell : How many people are here?
16:06:02	 From Victoria Wenzelmann to All panelists : WW :D
16:06:05	 From Olivier Piazza to All panelists : WW
16:06:14	 From arjen stolk : I'm here :)
16:06:27	 From Joachim Jacob : 🤗
16:06:49	 From Felix Fritsch to All panelists : me too!
16:06:51	 From Shon Feder : I am here too. Friendly, I hope :)
16:07:23	 From Nenad Maljkovic : Emojis don't work - use emoticons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon
16:07:53	 From Mark Simmonds to All panelists : I would stress that trade is essential to a co-op
16:07:59	 From Dounia Saeme to All panelists : Hi! Very excited to be here <3
16:08:29	 From Gareth Nash to All panelists : 80 signed up, 29 initially......
16:08:39	 From Ferran Reyes : Me :D
16:08:44	 From Robert Onono : Lovely to see everyone, and  you Nenad!; Robert from WEAll :)
16:08:58	 From Michael Hueschen : hi from the US 👋 🙂
16:09:05	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley : HI! :)
16:09:08	 From Ferran Reyes : Ferran Reyes, from Vocdoni.io, Guifi.net and Som Connexió
16:09:44	 From Sam Peters to All panelists : Hello from Kalamazoo!
16:09:59	 From Ian Hewitt : Hello from sunny Nottingham..
16:10:11	 From Elias Crim to All panelists : Hi from Elias in the Chicago area
16:10:54	 From Mark Simmonds : Hi Ian et al from Co-operative Calderdale
16:12:10	 From Mario Yanez to All panelists : Hi from Lisbon
16:13:44	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley : Shared notes: >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uRqOQSq2KDmgPtbML3-MCQpSyw4ucNkEOgBMZQ9sZ1k/edit#
16:14:12	 From Nenad Maljkovic : *\0/* = cheerleader :) 
16:14:34	 From Grace Rachmany : No offense taken. That's how the implementation looks now.
16:16:04	 From charles adjovu to All panelists : Hi from the US :)
16:17:58	 From Mario Yanez to All panelists : Are ecological systems/concerns not in DNA?
16:18:25	 From Robert Onono to All panelists : are we gonna get the slides for this?':)
16:19:04	 From Mario Yanez to All panelists : Is that dressed anywhere?
16:19:25	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley : Sure - slides will be openly available :)
16:19:39	 From Nenad Maljkovic : "give blueprints and then fit in humans" :-D 
16:22:08	 From Nenad Maljkovic : +1 on activism that you can afford 
16:22:12	 From Nathan Brown : I've always thought cross subsidy of social change from trading profits was fairly common in the social economy.  
16:22:57	 From Grace Rachmany : We are seeing a similar movement with Open Source, where Holochain is an open source non-profit that owns a for-profit, Holo Inc. to fund the open source development.
16:23:34	 From Mark Simmonds : Hi Nathan. Ceratinly looks like we're already a DisCO at Co-op Culture.
16:23:59	 From Nathan Brown : Albeit a small DisCo
16:24:03	 From Grace Rachmany : how do you manage the quality of the wok?
16:24:14	 From Robert Onono to All panelists : thanks Oliver!
16:24:28	 From arjen stolk : Is this comparable to the way Enspiral (New Zealand) works?
16:26:03	 From Heira Hardiyanti to All panelists : so it's worker coop
16:26:33	 From Nathan Brown : Interested in how availability/allocation/budgeting of probono works.  
16:27:06	 From Heira Hardiyanti to All panelists : is it open membership for around the world?
16:32:47	 From Nenad Maljkovic : Spreading, NOT scaling.
16:33:49	 From Dil Green : Federation of Human scale groups is a fundamental requirement, imho, for transcending the current self-extinction trajectory of our civilisation.
16:33:57	 From Nenad Maljkovic : ripping good read :) 

*\0/*
16:34:18	 From Grace Rachmany : I would say that scaling is the appropriate word when we are talking about creating a coop beyond Dunbar's number
16:36:01	 From Nenad Maljkovic : A coop beyond Dunbar's number is not a human system... political maybe. 
16:36:33	 From Nenad Maljkovic : *human-size system
16:36:37	 From Ferran Reyes : it also depends on the type of organization...if it's a big consumer co-op then probably we have to apply other kind of participation "signaling, do-ocracy, crowdsourcing,..."
16:37:16	 From Mark Simmonds : My experience of working with and establishing multi-stakeholder co-operatives in the UK is that only one class really engages with the governance. This is normally (but not always) the workers.
16:37:33	 From Ferran Reyes : is difficult to only relay on traditional participation processes (like annual general meetings) in these big orgs
16:38:04	 From mike hales to All panelists : Contribution is what DisCO is about. Multiple kinds of contribution, Valued differently. Not so much classes of membership, as different. kinds of relationship, and concrete va,using by the collective. It’s an ongoing labour of valu8ng, rather than a matter of fixed classes?
16:38:36	 From mike hales to All panelists : And yes, the workers are at the heart?
16:38:45	 From Nathan Brown : I think the Dunbar number and these comments underlines the importance of federated distribution.  We prefer "strawberry patch" development to "scaling".  Create sister co-ops not a larger co-op. You can create secondary co-ops to provide the shared lareg scale tech/needs
16:38:54	 From charles adjovu to All panelists : Interesting. For on-chain co-ops, maybe look at Nexus Mutual.
16:39:15	 From mike hales to All panelists : Strawberry patch ;)
16:39:47	 From Dil Green : Why on earth should we / how on earth can we - imagine that we are creating a foundational typology for the new economy if we are so comprehensively constrained by local legal company formation rules? If we ever challenge anything, we’ll simply be outlawed.
16:39:51	 From Nenad Maljkovic : Related resource: https://www.sociocracyforall.org/platform-co-op-governance-deep-democracy-on-scale/
16:41:46	 From Mark Simmonds : Stocksy could easily be a federation of smaller co-ops.
16:41:51	 From Sam Peters : I think it'd be difficult to outlaw an on-chain DisCOs since the infrastructure itself is decentralized. 
16:42:07	 From Dil Green : An alternative model is to frame our novel relationships entirely as a set of social agreements - and use that to control a simple vanilla / standard company structure (which can’t be outlawed without outlawing capitalism)
16:42:57	 From Dil Green : if DisCOs are entirely on-chain, why the discussion of local legal requirements?
16:43:11	 From Ferran Reyes : I have to leave! thanks for organizing the webinar and thanks stacco for share with us this project and model!
16:43:15	 From Joachim Jacob : FYI TheMobilityFacory.eu is a secondary co-op. Provides an IT platform for electric car sharing for coops only. Currently from DE, ES, BE and NL.  We share between the members also good pratices and how to scale and replicate
16:44:06	 From mike hales to All panelists : On chain? Whatver makes you think that Dil? These are people, doing work, getting livelihood, in market settings. Of course geography is part of it?
16:44:12	 From Nathan Brown : @Dil if you use standard company structures you risk buy out/asset stripping. We need protecttions and democracy.   If you have social agreements, which I take to be not written down, you have a recipe for disaster when you go beyond a small number of people,  This is the history of demutualisation.
16:45:51	 From Nathan Brown : Apologies all I have to leave.  This has been amazing.  All comments above really  thought provoking as well as the speakers. stay safe.  
16:46:12	 From mike hales to All panelists : HI nathan
16:46:48	 From Joachim Jacob : Tools should allow us to organise democracy on a bigger 'scale'. We are learning worldwide to connect digitally and keep trust - network of trust.
16:47:23	 From Joachim Jacob : Thank you, I have to go. Keep up the good work.
16:47:26	 From mike hales to All panelists : Economy of scope is a good counter to economy of scale?
16:47:39	 From Dil Green : @Nathan. If the standard company structure is 100% owned by a socially structured DiSCo, then such asset stripping can only happen if the DiSCo fails. This is truly for co-ops. Asset locks are enactable.
16:47:55	 From mike hales to All panelists : Economy organised to create scope, for contributors.
16:48:06	 From Dil Green : Social agreements certainly are written down - and are subject to arbitration - just not in nation-state courts.
16:48:19	 From Sam Peters : @dil To my understanding, you don't need to be on-chain to be a DisCO (I think most aren't?). Local legal requirements should be considered for coops that provide value locally (like Eva Coop in Montreal). But if you're challenging some global system that might get your DisCO outlawed, probably best to distribute your infrastructure by going on-chain. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding anything.
16:48:34	 From Dil Green : And there are excellent examples of these structure that handle enormously valuable and highly political problems.
16:49:05	 From mike hales to All panelists : Scope to put food in the fridge, build commons, care for coworkers, live life in real relationships
16:49:48	 From Dil Green : all international sporting bodies cannot submit to a nation star court - russia would cry would about USA income circs, the other way round in other circs. Hence the International Court of Arbitration for Sport. This is a social agreement, not validated by nation state law.
16:50:01	 From Mark Simmonds : Question: Are we looking at 
1) creating transnational co-operatives that have no legal personality anywhere, where any tax liability falls on the member; or
2) creating something that is legally incorporated in a particular jurisdiction?
Or both or more?
16:50:31	 From Dil Green : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Arbitration_for_Sport
16:51:03	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley : open questions next - raise your hand if you’d like to ask a question :)
16:52:13	 From Dil Green : This, of course, is Ostrom’s commons Court.
16:53:01	 From gaynor wood to All panelists : thank you. I have to leave but it has been enlightening.
16:53:09	 From mike hales to All panelists : Commons court - V important. Stwarding in commons is pivotal stuff. Protocolling too. Core literacy for commoning?
16:53:13	 From Lu Yen Roloff to All panelists : Could you please post the names of those Projects into the Chat, ist hard to note if you dont know them. Thanks!
16:53:44	 From Stacco Troncoso to All panelists : dyne.org
16:54:05	 From Stacco Troncoso to All panelists : https://zenroom.org/
16:54:26	 From Grace Rachmany : Can you provide a link to the Reflow project? That sounds super interesting
16:55:15	 From Simon Grant : @Mark -- good question!
16:55:42	 From Dil Green : https://reflowproject.eu/
16:55:52	 From mike hales to All panelists : https://reflowproject.eu
16:56:16	 From MatthewSlater : http://opencredit.network
16:57:22	 From Lynn Foster to All panelists : http://commonspub.org/
16:57:34	 From Lynn Foster to All panelists : https://valueflo.ws
16:58:17	 From Lynn Foster to All panelists : https://github.com/holo-rea/ecosystem/wiki
16:58:53	 From MatthewSlater to All panelists : bob do you know where the button is to put your hand up?
16:58:54	 From Dil Green : I have to go. Thanks all for this session.
16:59:40	 From Bob Haugen to mike hales, All Panelists : I don't see any hand up button
16:59:54	 From mike hales to All panelists : Is contribution ina DisCO always fir livelihood? or are some contributors gift cont4ibutors? or grant contributors? etc. In other words, the time-honoured messy mix of third sector work relations?
17:03:45	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : Michael, join the Holochain community.
17:04:47	 From charles adjovu to All panelists : Hey Michael. Have you looked at Organizational Technologies, such as Aragon and Colony?
17:06:01	 From Nenad Maljkovic : Networks and teams can use Open Collective platform: https://opencollective.com/how-it-works
17:06:32	 From Lynn Foster to All panelists : for lack of a better way at the moment, developers who are interested in talking could email info@mikorizal.org (me and Bob) - or Stacco has an email on one of the first slides, which coudl get you into the DisCO place
17:06:41	 From Robert Onono to All panelists : what's the name of the organization thaT Bob is talking about?
17:06:56	 From charles adjovu to All panelists : You could also ask another Co-op to hold funds on your behalf as well.
17:07:01	 From Nenad Maljkovic : Open Collective and what else... Stacco mentioned?
17:07:06	 From Stacco Troncoso to All panelists : hello@disco.coop 
17:07:07	 From Michael Hueschen to All panelists : @grace thanks! I’ve going through their tutorials this week actually
17:07:11	 From mike hales to All panelists : Oli - Will this recording be open to anybody? I can think of several who would love to tune in.
17:07:11	 From Stacco Troncoso to All panelists : Givveth
17:07:30	 From Bob Haugen : sensorica.co
17:07:30	 From Stacco Troncoso to All panelists : https://giveth.io/
17:08:00	 From Michael Hueschen : @grace thanks! I’ve going through their tutorials this week actually
17:10:54	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : Did he just call us technocrats? If the shoe fits.... LOL
17:11:11	 From Ruth Catlow : hi Stacco and crew- sorry for late arrival!
17:11:41	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley : Hi Ruth - do. U want to add a comment / question ?
17:11:45	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : Shon, I've been teaching a course to highschoolers as practice for teaching to adults about new types of economic systems. I thought the young people would be more malleable in their ideas but.... LOL
17:12:12	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : anyway, please feel free to reach out if you are interested in discussing further how to make that educational effort. I've been working on that in a variety of ways.
17:12:26	 From Ruth Catlow : I'll let yo uknow
17:12:37	 From Ruth Catlow : but in the meantime I'm looking forward to Smellivision!
17:12:53	 From Robert Onono to All panelists : the book that Stacco mentioned ?
17:12:59	 From Cindy Kohtala : what I like about the manifesto is how layered it is - with all the hypertext and links
17:13:24	 From Stacco Troncoso to All panelists : Rules for Radicals. Saul Alinski
17:13:30	 From mike hales to All panelists : Complex to read, I think. But a complex practice, so . .
17:14:09	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : WW 
Great book, gives great framework (Free, Fair and Alive)
17:14:30	 From Stacco Troncoso to All panelists : https://www.freefairandalive.org/read-it/#3
17:14:34	 From mike hales to All panelists : Bollier & Helfrich 2019 Free fair & alive - The resurgent power of the commons
17:14:37	 From Stacco Troncoso to All panelists : Here is the chapter on language
17:15:16	 From mike hales to All panelists : The commons is the glue - says Stacco!
17:15:31	 From Ruth Catlow : I have a question for Shon
17:15:33	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : You want... read the whole book!
17:16:46	 From charles adjovu to All panelists : Hey @Sam. There has been work going on with Commons-reciprocity licenses such as Peer Production license. Though the Peer Production license is so and so.
17:17:01	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : The CAL License is a new one which protects the authorship rights of the users (Self-sovereignty) and forbids software developers from holding people's private keys.
17:17:02	 From charles adjovu to All panelists : There is also the Coopyleft license from CoopCycle.
17:17:08	 From mike hales to All panelists : Peer production licence aims to enable ‘accumulation in the commons’
17:17:24	 From Simon Grant : http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Production_License
17:18:46	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : Hi Ruth!
17:19:57	 From Bob Haugen to Grace Rachmany, All Panelists : One consideration with software licenses is to agree on a license for a software ecosystem to collaborate unless you want to work along.
Some licenses are incompatible with some others
17:20:33	 From Bob Haugen : THat shd have been "unless you want to work alone"...
17:21:43	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : That's fascinating... people don't want to read the documents until something doesn't go their way.
17:21:54	 From Olivier Piazza : Wonderful webinar session. Much appreciation to you all 🙏 Let’s disco !
17:22:01	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley : :)
17:23:13	 From Enrique Góngora to All panelists : Thank you all for sharing knowledge, questions and insights. I'll keep in contact, possibly with some queries. Best wishes from Barcelona
17:24:14	 From Shon Feder to All panelists : Yeah, totally agree.
17:24:55	 From mike hales to All panelists : ‘Coop’ can be just a cool th7ng to do -  but doesn’t mean the people put the commons top of the list - sadly? So DisCO is something different, beyond?
17:27:01	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : WWW
17:27:41	 From Shon Feder : Yes, exaclty where I'm coming from. Thanks Oliver! :)
17:27:42	 From mike hales to All panelists : Stacco, Ruth - D’you go down in Dil’s pit a lot of the time in DisCO?
17:27:46	 From Ruth Catlow : So maybe a radicalisation tactic would be to crowdsource provocations that send people into the pit!
17:28:46	 From Mark Simmonds to All panelists : The next iteration of the Co-operative Principles needs to extend to commons, multiple capitals, plus earth & people care.
17:28:55	 From Sam Peters to All panelists : The East Bay Permanent Real Estate Cooperative has really fun bylaws - a good example of making boring documents fun to read! https://storage.googleapis.com/wzukusers/user-22872016/documents/5c1c13becd05czJWwWae/Adopted%20EB%20PREC%20Bylaws%20Dec%202018.pdf
17:29:23	 From Mark Simmonds to All panelists : I need to leave now. See you next time for more stimulating conversation. Peace.
17:29:33	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley : Thanks Mark
17:29:55	 From mike hales to All panelists : Build DisCO literacy! Yay!
17:30:25	 From Bob Haugen to Oliver Sylvester-Bradley (Privately) : Would you please harvest and distribute the chat? Thanks.
17:30:39	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley to Bob Haugen (Privately) : got it Bob
17:30:46	 From Bob Haugen to Oliver Sylvester-Bradley (Privately) : thx
17:31:24	 From Sam Peters : Is there a social media hub for people interested in DisCOs?
17:31:41	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : Great talk !!! Thank you so much!!!
17:31:58	 From Grace Rachmany to All panelists : "Everybody needs a disco". How can you argue with that?
17:32:15	 From Cindy Kohtala : and there is the social.coop instance on Mastodonn
17:32:28	 From Sam Peters : Thanks!
17:33:23	 From mike hales to All panelists : Almost time to wrap up . . Thank you all panellists :)  The story is coming through really well
17:33:35	 From Oliver Sylvester-Bradley to Bob Haugen (Privately) : Thanks Mike :)
17:34:58	 From Mary Fee : Greetings from LETSlink - many thanks to Oli, Stacco and everyone.
17:34:58	 From Shon Feder : yay! That will super helpful for folks in our siutation.
17:35:02	 From Shon Feder : Thanks so much!
17:35:03	 From Ruth Catlow : Brilliant!
17:35:03	 From Pablo Somonte Ruano to All panelists : Thank you for a great webinar, really productive Q & A.
17:35:11	 From Cindy Kohtala : thanks!
17:35:11	 From Michael Hueschen : Thanks!
17:35:21	 From Shon Feder : Just to note: it would be great if we can make sure all link sshared in this chat are recoreded in the google doc
17:35:32	 From Gary Alexander to All panelists : Thanks everyone.
17:35:39	 From Shon Feder : (I've lost a lot of chat history on the moves from participation etc.)
17:35:41	 From Ian Hewitt : Thanks to everyone. Ian
17:36:28	 From mike hales to All panelists : Great! Well done Oli - good start!