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string(1341) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
---
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay"
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string(1484) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay
"
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> Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
>
> You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
>
> I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
> ---
> Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
> there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
> I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
> thought.
>
> 1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
>
> 2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
> if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
> package?
>
> 3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
> bringing in money?
>
> 4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
> when and for how much?
>
> There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
> can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
> I can't even ssh into it right now.
>
> --
> Mamading Ceesay"
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["data"]=>
string(3442) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the [http://open.coop/PlaNet|Planet page]
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Decision+making|decision making] system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to [most of?] our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb"
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string(3707) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the Planet page
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed decision making system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to most of? our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb
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string(3085) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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string(3262) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
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2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
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Your own coop action proposal is a important step in that regard, and I encourage the others provide feedback and help flesh it out.
With regards to your point of Open Guides as shop, can we do a deal with Ethical Junction to provide the hosting and technology for their site? I think that we can put together a solid revenue and worksharing proposal if we put our minds to it.
With regards to funding, which organisations will we apply to? The London Development Agency and NESTA are two that come to mind.
I think in general, there needs to be more quantification for beancounter types. Targets, dates and numbers.
Also as Gary said, more background research so that policy/decisionmakers can see that we have done our homework.
That's all I have to say for now.
Regards,
Mamading."
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Regards,
Mamading.
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb"
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
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Peace
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Gary"
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Gary
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Peace
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Peace
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In parallel with this, we should begin to develop our proposal in detail! I'm trying to flesh out my ideas on this, and we have Oli's above too. Let's plan on getting this fully spelled out by the end of the year. (or sooner?)
Regards,
Gary
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Gary"
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
for their hard/clever work knowing that all benefits go towards 'good
causes':)
Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
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Traidmark aims to find a middle ground between ruthless efficiency
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reach that it does not have to evolve and therefore could hurt
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innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission. edwhyman@gmail.com
"
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
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"
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1. A 'time-line' will still exist. A count down: 'Time remaining' will be listed on each proposition.
2. The objective of removing 'satges' is simplicity. There will only be a few functions on any proposition: comment/debate/ask a question (all the same function), vote, delegate vote and possibly view results (although they could be listed on the proposition page).
The point though is that debate and decision are combined to allow participants to vote on an issue at any time (which feeds back as its' popularity) . No-one has to decide 'right lets make the decision', so simple (easily agreed) decisions happen as quickly as possible since users dont have to wait to vote.
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Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
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causes':)
Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
performance related pay while donating 100% net profit from the company
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Traidmark aims to find a middle ground between ruthless efficiency
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Profit making + donation to 'efficient' org's = increased
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My understanding is that small not for profit org's are run by
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is just with Google the Mozilla foundation could create such a dominant
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innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
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"
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Hi
I would like to join an activeopen cooperative.
One way to do ths is to ask members to pay a small £5 fee to make sure everyone is committed. the next stage would be to enable all members to meet up monthly to see how we can collaborate best.
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
for their hard/clever work knowing that all benefits go towards 'good
causes':)
Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
performance related pay while donating 100% net profit from the company
to innovative charities.
Traidmark aims to find a middle ground between ruthless efficiency
e.g.Tesco (uk) and compassionate inefficiency e.g. charities by
combining the best parts of each.
Profit making + donation to 'efficient' org's = increased
efficiency/innovation and increased philanthropic work.
My understanding is that small not for profit org's are run by
passionate people and therefore keep efficiency high. There may be a
problem in the future of NFPO's as they get larger and/or creating a
reputation which then allows them to then become (especially if/when
they get into a dominant position / niche market). One potential danger
is just with Google the Mozilla foundation could create such a dominant
reach that it does not have to evolve and therefore could hurt
'progress' by becoming sluggish and conservative in its approach to
innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission.
"
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string(1341) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
---
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay"
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string(1484) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay
"
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> Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
>
> You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
>
> I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
> ---
> Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
> there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
> I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
> thought.
>
> 1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
>
> 2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
> if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
> package?
>
> 3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
> bringing in money?
>
> 4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
> when and for how much?
>
> There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
> can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
> I can't even ssh into it right now.
>
> --
> Mamading Ceesay"
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["data"]=>
string(3442) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the [http://open.coop/PlaNet|Planet page]
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Decision+making|decision making] system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to [most of?] our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb"
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string(3707) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the Planet page
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed decision making system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to most of? our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb
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string(3085) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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string(3262) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
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5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
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3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
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5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
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string(1021) "olisb, thanks for your response. I hope the others will join in. For me, a key issue is funding in the short to medium term up until the period that open coop can become self-sustaining from its own activities.
Your own coop action proposal is a important step in that regard, and I encourage the others provide feedback and help flesh it out.
With regards to your point of Open Guides as shop, can we do a deal with Ethical Junction to provide the hosting and technology for their site? I think that we can put together a solid revenue and worksharing proposal if we put our minds to it.
With regards to funding, which organisations will we apply to? The London Development Agency and NESTA are two that come to mind.
I think in general, there needs to be more quantification for beancounter types. Targets, dates and numbers.
Also as Gary said, more background research so that policy/decisionmakers can see that we have done our homework.
That's all I have to say for now.
Regards,
Mamading."
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Regards,
Mamading.
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb"
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string(1080) "Hi Mamading,
You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb
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In parallel with this, we should begin to develop our proposal in detail! I'm trying to flesh out my ideas on this, and we have Oli's above too. Let's plan on getting this fully spelled out by the end of the year. (or sooner?)
Regards,
Gary"
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Regards,
Gary
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
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I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb"
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
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I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb
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Gary"
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Gary
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Gary
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
for their hard/clever work knowing that all benefits go towards 'good
causes':)
Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
performance related pay while donating 100% net profit from the company
to innovative charities.
Traidmark aims to find a middle ground between ruthless efficiency
e.g.Tesco (uk) and compassionate inefficiency e.g. charities by
combining the best parts of each.
Profit making + donation to 'efficient' org's = increased
efficiency/innovation and increased philanthropic work.
My understanding is that small not for profit org's are run by
passionate people and therefore keep efficiency high. There may be a
problem in the future of NFPO's as they get larger and/or creating a
reputation which then allows them to then become (especially if/when
they get into a dominant position / niche market). One potential danger
is just with Google the Mozilla foundation could create such a dominant
reach that it does not have to evolve and therefore could hurt
'progress' by becoming sluggish and conservative in its approach to
innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission. edwhyman@gmail.com
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
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1. A 'time-line' will still exist. A count down: 'Time remaining' will be listed on each proposition.
2. The objective of removing 'satges' is simplicity. There will only be a few functions on any proposition: comment/debate/ask a question (all the same function), vote, delegate vote and possibly view results (although they could be listed on the proposition page).
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
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them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
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though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
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Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission. edwhyman@gmail.com
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Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
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Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
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select `login`,`avatarType`,`avatarLibName` from `users_users` where `login`=?
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olisb
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Table './open/users_users' is marked as crashed and should be repaired
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string(248) "
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["data"]=>
string(1341) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
---
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay"
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string(1484) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay
"
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> Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
>
> You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
>
> I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
> ---
> Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
> there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
> I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
> thought.
>
> 1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
>
> 2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
> if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
> package?
>
> 3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
> bringing in money?
>
> 4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
> when and for how much?
>
> There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
> can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
> I can't even ssh into it right now.
>
> --
> Mamading Ceesay"
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string(3442) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the [http://open.coop/PlaNet|Planet page]
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Decision+making|decision making] system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to [most of?] our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb"
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string(3707) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the Planet page
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed decision making system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to most of? our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb
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string(3085) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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string(3262) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
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string(3085) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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string(3262) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
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2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
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string(1021) "olisb, thanks for your response. I hope the others will join in. For me, a key issue is funding in the short to medium term up until the period that open coop can become self-sustaining from its own activities.
Your own coop action proposal is a important step in that regard, and I encourage the others provide feedback and help flesh it out.
With regards to your point of Open Guides as shop, can we do a deal with Ethical Junction to provide the hosting and technology for their site? I think that we can put together a solid revenue and worksharing proposal if we put our minds to it.
With regards to funding, which organisations will we apply to? The London Development Agency and NESTA are two that come to mind.
I think in general, there needs to be more quantification for beancounter types. Targets, dates and numbers.
Also as Gary said, more background research so that policy/decisionmakers can see that we have done our homework.
That's all I have to say for now.
Regards,
Mamading."
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string(1096) "olisb, thanks for your response. I hope the others will join in. For me, a key issue is funding in the short to medium term up until the period that open coop can become self-sustaining from its own activities.
Your own coop action proposal is a important step in that regard, and I encourage the others provide feedback and help flesh it out.
With regards to your point of Open Guides as shop, can we do a deal with Ethical Junction to provide the hosting and technology for their site? I think that we can put together a solid revenue and worksharing proposal if we put our minds to it.
With regards to funding, which organisations will we apply to? The London Development Agency and NESTA are two that come to mind.
I think in general, there needs to be more quantification for beancounter types. Targets, dates and numbers.
Also as Gary said, more background research so that policy/decisionmakers can see that we have done our homework.
That's all I have to say for now.
Regards,
Mamading.
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string(1023) "Hi Mamading,
You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb"
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
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Peace
olisb"
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Peace
olisb
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Gary
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
for their hard/clever work knowing that all benefits go towards 'good
causes':)
Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
performance related pay while donating 100% net profit from the company
to innovative charities.
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e.g.Tesco (uk) and compassionate inefficiency e.g. charities by
combining the best parts of each.
Profit making + donation to 'efficient' org's = increased
efficiency/innovation and increased philanthropic work.
My understanding is that small not for profit org's are run by
passionate people and therefore keep efficiency high. There may be a
problem in the future of NFPO's as they get larger and/or creating a
reputation which then allows them to then become (especially if/when
they get into a dominant position / niche market). One potential danger
is just with Google the Mozilla foundation could create such a dominant
reach that it does not have to evolve and therefore could hurt
'progress' by becoming sluggish and conservative in its approach to
innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission. edwhyman@gmail.com
"
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission. edwhyman@gmail.com
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1. A 'time-line' will still exist. A count down: 'Time remaining' will be listed on each proposition.
2. The objective of removing 'satges' is simplicity. There will only be a few functions on any proposition: comment/debate/ask a question (all the same function), vote, delegate vote and possibly view results (although they could be listed on the proposition page).
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
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though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission. edwhyman@gmail.com
"
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Hi
I would like to join an activeopen cooperative.
One way to do ths is to ask members to pay a small £5 fee to make sure everyone is committed. the next stage would be to enable all members to meet up monthly to see how we can collaborate best.
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
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though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
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performance related pay while donating 100% net profit from the company
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is just with Google the Mozilla foundation could create such a dominant
reach that it does not have to evolve and therefore could hurt
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innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission.
"
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string(1) "n"
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string(7) "2592000"
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string(1) "n"
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string(7) "2592000"
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string(2) "20"
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string(12) "average_desc"
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string(16) "commentDate_desc"
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string(9) "att_admin"
["att_store"]=>
string(2) "db"
["att_store_dir"]=>
string(0) ""
["att_max_size"]=>
string(7) "1000000"
["ui_level"]=>
string(1) "y"
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string(0) ""
["forum_use_password"]=>
string(1) "n"
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string(6) "admins"
["approval_type"]=>
string(10) "all_posted"
["outbound_address"]=>
string(0) ""
["outbound_mails_for_inbound_mails"]=>
NULL
["outbound_mails_reply_link"]=>
NULL
["outbound_from"]=>
string(0) ""
["inbound_pop_server"]=>
string(0) ""
["inbound_pop_port"]=>
string(3) "110"
["inbound_pop_user"]=>
string(0) ""
["inbound_pop_password"]=>
string(0) ""
["topic_smileys"]=>
string(1) "y"
["ui_avatar"]=>
string(1) "y"
["ui_flag"]=>
string(1) "y"
["ui_posts"]=>
string(1) "y"
["ui_email"]=>
string(1) "n"
["ui_online"]=>
string(1) "y"
["topic_summary"]=>
string(1) "y"
["show_description"]=>
string(1) "y"
["topics_list_replies"]=>
string(1) "y"
["topics_list_reads"]=>
string(1) "y"
["topics_list_pts"]=>
string(1) "y"
["topics_list_lastpost"]=>
string(1) "y"
["topics_list_author"]=>
string(1) "y"
["vote_threads"]=>
string(1) "y"
["forum_last_n"]=>
string(1) "5"
}
["can_read"]=>
string(1) "y"
}
}
["unread"]=>
int(0)
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&array(19) {
[0]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "7"
["taglabel"]=>
string(9) "wiki link"
["taginsert"]=>
string(8) "((text))"
["tagicon"]=>
string(18) "images/ed_copy.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(18) "images/ed_copy.gif"
}
[1]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "3"
["taglabel"]=>
string(9) "underline"
["taginsert"]=>
string(10) "===text==="
["tagicon"]=>
string(30) "images/ed_format_underline.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(30) "images/ed_format_underline.gif"
}
[2]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "9"
["taglabel"]=>
string(9) "title bar"
["taginsert"]=>
string(8) "-=text=-"
["tagicon"]=>
string(30) "images/fullscreen_maximize.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(30) "images/fullscreen_maximize.gif"
}
[3]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "13"
["taglabel"]=>
string(7) "tagline"
["taginsert"]=>
string(8) "{cookie}"
["tagicon"]=>
string(20) "images/footprint.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(20) "images/footprint.gif"
}
[4]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "5"
["taglabel"]=>
string(9) "table new"
["taginsert"]=>
string(23) "||r1c1|r1c2
r2c1|r2c2||"
["tagicon"]=>
string(23) "images/insert_table.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(23) "images/insert_table.gif"
}
[5]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "4"
["taglabel"]=>
string(5) "table"
["taginsert"]=>
string(24) "||r1c1|r1c2||r2c1|r2c2||"
["tagicon"]=>
string(23) "images/insert_table.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(23) "images/insert_table.gif"
}
[6]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "67"
["taglabel"]=>
string(22) "split page (2 columns)"
["taginsert"]=>
string(74) "{SPLIT()}
stuf in the left column
---
stuf in the right column
{SPLIT}"
["tagicon"]=>
string(18) "images/ed_copy.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(18) "images/ed_copy.gif"
}
[7]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "11"
["taglabel"]=>
string(8) "rss feed"
["taginsert"]=>
string(10) "{rss id= }"
["tagicon"]=>
string(19) "images/ico_link.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(19) "images/ico_link.gif"
}
[8]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "2"
["taglabel"]=>
string(6) "italic"
["taginsert"]=>
string(8) "''text''"
["tagicon"]=>
string(27) "images/ed_format_italic.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(27) "images/ed_format_italic.gif"
}
[9]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "18"
["taglabel"]=>
string(5) "image"
["taginsert"]=>
string(45) "{img src= width= height= align= desc= link= }"
["tagicon"]=>
string(19) "images/ed_image.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(19) "images/ed_image.gif"
}
[10]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "14"
["taglabel"]=>
string(2) "hr"
["taginsert"]=>
string(3) "---"
["tagicon"]=>
string(16) "images/ed_hr.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(16) "images/ed_hr.gif"
}
[11]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "8"
["taglabel"]=>
string(8) "heading1"
["taginsert"]=>
string(5) "!text"
["tagicon"]=>
string(20) "images/ed_custom.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(20) "images/ed_custom.gif"
}
[12]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "6"
["taglabel"]=>
string(13) "external link"
["taginsert"]=>
string(25) "[http://example.com|text]"
["tagicon"]=>
string(18) "images/ed_link.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(18) "images/ed_link.gif"
}
[13]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "17"
["taglabel"]=>
string(16) "dynamic variable"
["taginsert"]=>
string(6) "%text%"
["tagicon"]=>
string(15) "images/book.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(15) "images/book.gif"
}
[14]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "12"
["taglabel"]=>
string(15) "dynamic content"
["taginsert"]=>
string(14) "{content id= }"
["tagicon"]=>
string(15) "images/book.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(15) "images/book.gif"
}
[15]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "16"
["taglabel"]=>
string(12) "colored text"
["taginsert"]=>
string(16) "~~#FF0000:text~~"
["tagicon"]=>
string(21) "images/fontfamily.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(21) "images/fontfamily.gif"
}
[16]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "15"
["taglabel"]=>
string(11) "center text"
["taginsert"]=>
string(8) "::text::"
["tagicon"]=>
string(26) "images/ed_align_center.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(26) "images/ed_align_center.gif"
}
[17]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "10"
["taglabel"]=>
string(3) "box"
["taginsert"]=>
string(6) "^text^"
["tagicon"]=>
string(19) "images/ed_about.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(19) "images/ed_about.gif"
}
[18]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "1"
["taglabel"]=>
string(4) "bold"
["taginsert"]=>
string(8) "__text__"
["tagicon"]=>
string(25) "images/ed_format_bold.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(25) "images/ed_format_bold.gif"
}
}
["forum_mode"]=>
string(1) "y"
["mid"]=>
string(26) "tiki-view_forum_thread.tpl"
["postclass"]=>
string(9) "forumpost"
["msg"]=>
string(991) "
select `login`,`avatarType`,`avatarLibName` from `users_users` where `login`=?
Values:
0
olisb
Message:
Error Message
Table './open/users_users' is marked as crashed and should be repaired
"
}
["_smarty_vars"]=>
NULL
["_sections"]=>
array(1) {
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array(14) {
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string(6) "homeix"
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int(5)
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bool(true)
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}
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array(0) {
}
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array(0) {
}
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NULL
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array(2) {
[0]=>
array(2) {
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array(0) {
}
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}
}
[1]=>
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array(0) {
}
["files"]=>
array(0) {
}
}
}
["_smarty_md5"]=>
string(32) "f8d698aea36fcbead2b9d5359ffca76f"
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string(2) "en"
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}
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array(0) {
}
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}
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int(36)
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bool(true)
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bool(true)
}
["avatarize"]=>
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int(34)
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bool(true)
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bool(true)
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int(37)
[3]=>
bool(true)
[4]=>
bool(true)
}
["countryflag"]=>
&array(5) {
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string(27) "smarty_modifier_countryflag"
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string(26) "tiki-view_forum_thread.tpl"
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int(38)
[3]=>
bool(true)
[4]=>
bool(true)
}
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bool(true)
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bool(true)
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bool(true)
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bool(true)
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int(27)
[3]=>
bool(true)
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bool(true)
}
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string(10) "footer.tpl"
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int(11)
[3]=>
bool(true)
[4]=>
bool(true)
}
}
["function"]=>
array(3) {
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string(27) "smarty_function_breadcrumbs"
[1]=>
string(10) "header.tpl"
[2]=>
int(32)
[3]=>
bool(true)
[4]=>
bool(true)
}
["popup_init"]=>
&array(5) {
[0]=>
string(26) "smarty_function_popup_init"
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string(10) "header.tpl"
[2]=>
int(132)
[3]=>
bool(true)
[4]=>
bool(true)
}
["html_image"]=>
array(5) {
[0]=>
string(26) "smarty_function_html_image"
[1]=>
string(26) "tiki-view_forum_thread.tpl"
[2]=>
int(59)
[3]=>
bool(true)
[4]=>
bool(true)
}
}
["block"]=>
array(1) {
["tr"]=>
array(5) {
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string(15) "smarty_block_tr"
[1]=>
string(9) "error.tpl"
[2]=>
int(40)
[3]=>
bool(true)
[4]=>
bool(true)
}
}
["compiler"]=>
array(0) {
}
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}
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array(0) {
}
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array(0) {
}
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}
}
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array(0) {
}
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NULL
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bool(false)
}
["type"]=>
string(2) "->"
["args"]=>
array(4) {
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[1]=>
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[2]=>
&string(2) "en"
[3]=>
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}
}
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["line"]=>
int(1101)
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string(5) "fetch"
["class"]=>
string(15) "Smarty_TikiWiki"
["object"]=>
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string(39) "/home/open/tiki/lib/smarty/libs/plugins"
}
["debugging"]=>
bool(false)
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NULL
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string(0) ""
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string(4) "NONE"
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int(0)
["security"]=>
bool(false)
["secure_dir"]=>
array(0) {
}
["security_settings"]=>
array(6) {
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bool(false)
["IF_FUNCS"]=>
array(11) {
[0]=>
string(5) "array"
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string(4) "list"
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string(5) "empty"
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string(5) "count"
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string(6) "sizeof"
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string(8) "is_array"
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string(4) "true"
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string(5) "false"
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string(4) "null"
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bool(false)
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string(5) "count"
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}
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array(0) {
}
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string(5) "EGPCS"
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bool(true)
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NULL
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bool(true)
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array(0) {
}
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string(4) "file"
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array(0) {
}
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bool(true)
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bool(true)
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bool(false)
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bool(true)
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string(0) ""
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string(25) "Smarty_Compiler.class.php"
["compiler_class"]=>
string(15) "Smarty_Compiler"
["config_class"]=>
string(11) "Config_File"
["_tpl_vars"]=>
array(861) {
["app_name"]=>
string(8) "TikiWiki"
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string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_wiki_view_ratings"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_wiki_view_history"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_wiki_view_comments"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_wiki_view_attachments"]=>
string(1) "y"
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string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_wiki_admin_ratings"]=>
string(1) "n"
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string(1) "n"
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string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_vote_demo"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_vote_comments"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_vote_chart"]=>
string(1) "n"
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string(1) "n"
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string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_trackers_closed"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_trackers"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_tiki_calendar"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_templates"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_survey_stats"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_stats"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_shoutbox"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_sheet_history"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_sheet"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_referer_stats"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_quiz_stats"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_integrator"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_image_gallery"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_html_pages"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_file_gallery"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_faqs"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_eph"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_directory"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_chart"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view_categories"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_view_calendar"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_view"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_validate_links"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_use_workflow"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_use_webmail"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_use_HTML"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_use_content_templates"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_usermenu"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_userfiles"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_upload_picture"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_upload_images"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_upload_files"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_tracker_vote_ratings"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_tracker_view_ratings"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_topic_read"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_tasks_send"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_tasks_receive"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_tasks_admin"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_tasks"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_take_survey"]=>
string(1) "y"
["tiki_p_take_quiz"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_suggest_faq"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_suggest_chart_item"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_subscribe_newsletters"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_subscribe_email"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_submit_link"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_submit_article"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_send_pages"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_send_newsletters"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_send_instance"]=>
string(1) "n"
["tiki_p_send_articles"]=>
string(1) "n"
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string(1341) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
---
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay"
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string(1484) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay
"
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> Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
>
> You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
>
> I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
> ---
> Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
> there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
> I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
> thought.
>
> 1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
>
> 2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
> if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
> package?
>
> 3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
> bringing in money?
>
> 4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
> when and for how much?
>
> There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
> can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
> I can't even ssh into it right now.
>
> --
> Mamading Ceesay"
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["data"]=>
string(3442) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the [http://open.coop/PlaNet|Planet page]
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Decision+making|decision making] system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to [most of?] our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb"
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string(3707) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the Planet page
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed decision making system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to most of? our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb
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string(3085) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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string(3262) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
"
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2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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string(3262) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
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string(1021) "olisb, thanks for your response. I hope the others will join in. For me, a key issue is funding in the short to medium term up until the period that open coop can become self-sustaining from its own activities.
Your own coop action proposal is a important step in that regard, and I encourage the others provide feedback and help flesh it out.
With regards to your point of Open Guides as shop, can we do a deal with Ethical Junction to provide the hosting and technology for their site? I think that we can put together a solid revenue and worksharing proposal if we put our minds to it.
With regards to funding, which organisations will we apply to? The London Development Agency and NESTA are two that come to mind.
I think in general, there needs to be more quantification for beancounter types. Targets, dates and numbers.
Also as Gary said, more background research so that policy/decisionmakers can see that we have done our homework.
That's all I have to say for now.
Regards,
Mamading."
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string(1096) "olisb, thanks for your response. I hope the others will join in. For me, a key issue is funding in the short to medium term up until the period that open coop can become self-sustaining from its own activities.
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I think in general, there needs to be more quantification for beancounter types. Targets, dates and numbers.
Also as Gary said, more background research so that policy/decisionmakers can see that we have done our homework.
That's all I have to say for now.
Regards,
Mamading.
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb"
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string(1080) "Hi Mamading,
You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb
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In parallel with this, we should begin to develop our proposal in detail! I'm trying to flesh out my ideas on this, and we have Oli's above too. Let's plan on getting this fully spelled out by the end of the year. (or sooner?)
Regards,
Gary"
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Regards,
Gary
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
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Peace
olisb"
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
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Peace
olisb
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Gary"
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Regards,
Gary"
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In parallel with this, we should begin to develop our proposal in detail! I'm trying to flesh out my ideas on this, and we have Oli's above too. Let's plan on getting this fully spelled out by the end of the year. (or sooner?)
Regards,
Gary
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In parallel with this, we should begin to develop our proposal in detail! I'm trying to flesh out my ideas on this, and we have Oli's above too. Let's plan on getting this fully spelled out by the end of the year. (or sooner?)
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Gary"
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Gary
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
for their hard/clever work knowing that all benefits go towards 'good
causes':)
Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
performance related pay while donating 100% net profit from the company
to innovative charities.
Traidmark aims to find a middle ground between ruthless efficiency
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is just with Google the Mozilla foundation could create such a dominant
reach that it does not have to evolve and therefore could hurt
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innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission. edwhyman@gmail.com
"
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
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though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
for their hard/clever work knowing that all benefits go towards 'good
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
This email and any attachments are confidential.
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"
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1. A 'time-line' will still exist. A count down: 'Time remaining' will be listed on each proposition.
2. The objective of removing 'satges' is simplicity. There will only be a few functions on any proposition: comment/debate/ask a question (all the same function), vote, delegate vote and possibly view results (although they could be listed on the proposition page).
The point though is that debate and decision are combined to allow participants to vote on an issue at any time (which feeds back as its' popularity) . No-one has to decide 'right lets make the decision', so simple (easily agreed) decisions happen as quickly as possible since users dont have to wait to vote.
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Hi
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Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
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causes':)
Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
performance related pay while donating 100% net profit from the company
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Traidmark aims to find a middle ground between ruthless efficiency
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Profit making + donation to 'efficient' org's = increased
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My understanding is that small not for profit org's are run by
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is just with Google the Mozilla foundation could create such a dominant
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innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
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"
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Hi
I would like to join an activeopen cooperative.
One way to do ths is to ask members to pay a small £5 fee to make sure everyone is committed. the next stage would be to enable all members to meet up monthly to see how we can collaborate best.
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
for their hard/clever work knowing that all benefits go towards 'good
causes':)
Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
performance related pay while donating 100% net profit from the company
to innovative charities.
Traidmark aims to find a middle ground between ruthless efficiency
e.g.Tesco (uk) and compassionate inefficiency e.g. charities by
combining the best parts of each.
Profit making + donation to 'efficient' org's = increased
efficiency/innovation and increased philanthropic work.
My understanding is that small not for profit org's are run by
passionate people and therefore keep efficiency high. There may be a
problem in the future of NFPO's as they get larger and/or creating a
reputation which then allows them to then become (especially if/when
they get into a dominant position / niche market). One potential danger
is just with Google the Mozilla foundation could create such a dominant
reach that it does not have to evolve and therefore could hurt
'progress' by becoming sluggish and conservative in its approach to
innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission.
"
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string(1341) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
---
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay"
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string(1484) "Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
thought.
1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
package?
3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
bringing in money?
4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
when and for how much?
There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
I can't even ssh into it right now.
--
Mamading Ceesay
"
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> Since the flowing, which was e-mailed by Mamading seems so important and looks like the beginning of a long conversation (which I have been dyding to get to the end of for some time) I have taken the liberty of pasting it to this forum.
>
> You can watch these forums, and do cool things in 'admin forums' (like Forward messages to this forum to this e-mail address, in a format that can be used for sending back to the inbound forum e-mail address)
>
> I have numbered mamadings questions for clarity.
> ---
> Between yesterday's meeting and Oli's proposal, it seems to me that
> there is a lack of clarity over the business model/plan for Open. So
> I'm going to ask some questions that will hopefully provoke some
> thought.
>
> 1. What products/services is Open going to provide to partners/members?
>
> 2. Will partners/members pay some sort of membership fee/subscription and
> if so what products/services will they get as part of the membership
> package?
>
> 3. How does Open get to the point where it can set up shop and start
> bringing in money?
>
> 4. What funding applications can Open make? For what, to whom,
> when and for how much?
>
> There's probably some related material on the open coop site, but I
> can't seem to reach it right now. Can someone get Dinix to look at it,
> I can't even ssh into it right now.
>
> --
> Mamading Ceesay"
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["data"]=>
string(3442) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the [http://open.coop/PlaNet|Planet page]
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Decision+making|decision making] system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to [most of?] our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb"
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string(3707) "Hi Mamading ;) tehe
Good questions.
Here's how i see it...
1. Ultimately (hopefully) we will offer our members everything listed on the Planet page
Initially, I think we should offer our members:
Email (POP3, IMAP and web mail) with spam filtering and virus scanning at their own open.coop address, Mailing lists and Shared calendars (as u suggest!!) and ALL FOR FREE
Plus, simple practical advice on how to start a local co-op, in the form of (a series of?) single web pages and pdfs.
At this stage, we will have nothing to offer partners.
This first phase will enable us to set up an 'open: no ads' version of Freecycle, ( our 'Swap Shop') and also a basic 'Skills Exchange’ and begin a concerted membership drive.
I believe, the next part of PlaNet we should hope to offer our members (which is actually not listed on the page I quote - ooooops) is a distributed decision making system (DMS).
Membership of the open co-op MUST always be free for individuals who will have to agree to most of? our principles. Use of the DMS will be free for individual members of the Open Co-op, any group of users that does not want to join may pay a fee. Enterprises will pay for use of this system but, ones that wish to become partners (and that we deem worthy) also get the use of this system for free.
The next phase could be one of many things. I think it should be the 'Open guides'.
I've only just realised the Open Guides are in fact (dare I say 'simply') a shop with ratings, reviews, and a sustainability rating (see screenshot) but, mostly they are shops. I think we can offer a beta service (with minimal sustainability data) quite soon (using a mod of Zen cart?) where individuals NGOs and charities 'pay to trade' (via a democratically agreed level of commission) while enterprises 'pay to join and trade' and get 'ethically audited' into the deal, receiving the Open Kite Mark if they are up to spec.
That is my best medium term plan :) (we've done short term) I don’t think we can really plan much further atm but we will obviously also be investigating how to partner people that will help us provide the rest of the services listed as part of PlaNet.
2. OK, I’ve messed myself up with my own numbers. Dam ;( see above
3. Partly answered in 1. but once the distributed DMS is set up, one of the clearest means of making money will be selling it (to big enterprises), training innit (nice English) and instruction manuals in how to use it...
This will complement our insidious membership drive, general promotional activities and encourage (hopefully lucrative - think phone co-op) partnerships. It may also open the door for providing 'sustainable management consultancy' to big business, local government and many other organisations (for professional rates).
Once we have the Open guides we really have 'set up shop'.
4. dam this post is too long already, u probably all hate me and think these are shit ideas so i'll shut up now... (!) but the answers are: Grants and loans, for providing the services listed above, to several organisations, any time we like, for as much as we think it will take (if 'we' believe, innit!!!)
dyagetme?
RE: your last point, I mailed them, they're crap, but it is working atm enuf 4 me to do this! let's get something else sorted (as agreed) ASAP.
Peace
olisb
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string(3085) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
2. What can we offer right now? Mostly the vision. Not to be denigrated. Creates hope, potential empowerment.
3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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string(3262) "This is a reply not just to the above points, but also to the very important more general points you have been rasing in recent emails and on IRC. In general, I agree with what you are saying, and add my take on it.
1. Playing to our collective strengths: a great vision, ability to create good online learning material, understanding of communication skills and experience creating groups that know about them, networking to a wide range of groups and organisations and lots of experience with how they work and their problems, software design, development and maintenance experience. Building on the Open University brand name.
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4. What can we offer soon? i.e. with very little development: The basic open groups, when developed. I think our angle should be a) major emphasis on usability, but no untested innovations in technology b)major emphasis on communications skills as a means of making groups work better, c)as a first step towards our vision. We should offer to work closely with selected pilot groups, matching their needs and working with them on usability.
5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
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3. Short term income? I personally don't feel comfortable offering my services for consultancies now, and won't even when we get software set up until I have some experience working unpaid with groups on it. I can talk about vision, about using software to improve communication, but only for free at this stage. Others of you may feel differently about this. In the short term, it is grants, so far as I can see. But that could change hugely within a year.
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5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my [http://open.coop/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Plan#id817964|Development Plan] page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
#Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
#Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
#Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary"
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5. The decision making system should be a major ingredient in the next step of the Open Groups, among other facilities. See my Development Plan page for more of that vision.
6. I currently see our overall offering as:
Hey groups, here is your opportunity to become part of the Open Co-op vision and help make it happen. In the short term, we will help you to become more effective at what you are already doing, using our Open Groups.
Our facilities will be created in several parts:
Open groups - Bring an awareness of effective communication into your group. We see communication skills as a key to enhanced effectiveness, and include Open University-made training in this, as valuable face-to-face as online. Open Groups include basic online group communication facilities with special support for effective collaboration skills. Later versions of the Open Groups include project management, decision making support, meeting support, etc.
Open consumer guides - Bring an awareness of quality, reputation, environmental effect into your consuming.
Open accounts - Bring an awareness of overall giving and receiving, and reputation both for money and on a voluntary basis into your group. Promotes service over money as a basis for effort.
So, it is awareness, not just software that we are offering!
Does this sound better?
Regards,
Gary
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string(1021) "olisb, thanks for your response. I hope the others will join in. For me, a key issue is funding in the short to medium term up until the period that open coop can become self-sustaining from its own activities.
Your own coop action proposal is a important step in that regard, and I encourage the others provide feedback and help flesh it out.
With regards to your point of Open Guides as shop, can we do a deal with Ethical Junction to provide the hosting and technology for their site? I think that we can put together a solid revenue and worksharing proposal if we put our minds to it.
With regards to funding, which organisations will we apply to? The London Development Agency and NESTA are two that come to mind.
I think in general, there needs to be more quantification for beancounter types. Targets, dates and numbers.
Also as Gary said, more background research so that policy/decisionmakers can see that we have done our homework.
That's all I have to say for now.
Regards,
Mamading."
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That's all I have to say for now.
Regards,
Mamading.
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb"
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string(1080) "Hi Mamading,
You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb
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In parallel with this, we should begin to develop our proposal in detail! I'm trying to flesh out my ideas on this, and we have Oli's above too. Let's plan on getting this fully spelled out by the end of the year. (or sooner?)
Regards,
Gary"
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Regards,
Gary
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You are right. Funding for now, the medium term, should be our top priority. Without this Open will suffer.
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I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
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Peace
olisb"
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On refelction, I think my application to Co-op action is for the wrong thing. I now think it should be for a similar amount but for the development of the e-mail, calendar and mailing list tools as well as the DMS, not the Open Guides. If the others agree with the plan above i will re-write it accordingly. It seems to make more sense to use grant money to get us to the point that we can make some money for ourselves.
I like your idea about Ethical Junction and think we should pursue the 'worksharing proposal' as an example of a 'partnership'. Josef has already contacted them but was at a loss as to what 'being partners' involved. I think we have a much clearer idea of this now.
I agree, research is key and quantification will not only satisfy bean-counters (which is a prerequisite for any funding) but help us work out if what we are proposing is actually workable.
Peace
olisb
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Gary
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
for their hard/clever work knowing that all benefits go towards 'good
causes':)
Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
performance related pay while donating 100% net profit from the company
to innovative charities.
Traidmark aims to find a middle ground between ruthless efficiency
e.g.Tesco (uk) and compassionate inefficiency e.g. charities by
combining the best parts of each.
Profit making + donation to 'efficient' org's = increased
efficiency/innovation and increased philanthropic work.
My understanding is that small not for profit org's are run by
passionate people and therefore keep efficiency high. There may be a
problem in the future of NFPO's as they get larger and/or creating a
reputation which then allows them to then become (especially if/when
they get into a dominant position / niche market). One potential danger
is just with Google the Mozilla foundation could create such a dominant
reach that it does not have to evolve and therefore could hurt
'progress' by becoming sluggish and conservative in its approach to
innovation.
If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission. edwhyman@gmail.com
"
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
This email and any attachments are confidential.
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1. A 'time-line' will still exist. A count down: 'Time remaining' will be listed on each proposition.
2. The objective of removing 'satges' is simplicity. There will only be a few functions on any proposition: comment/debate/ask a question (all the same function), vote, delegate vote and possibly view results (although they could be listed on the proposition page).
The point though is that debate and decision are combined to allow participants to vote on an issue at any time (which feeds back as its' popularity) . No-one has to decide 'right lets make the decision', so simple (easily agreed) decisions happen as quickly as possible since users dont have to wait to vote.
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Hi
Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
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them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
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though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
You may not use any information contained in this email or attachments
without permission. edwhyman@gmail.com
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Your work looks very exciting and could also benefit from the goodwill
generated and efficiency increased by embracing this www.traidmark.org
100% net profit donation to charity business model that enables your
exciting work to generate profit from its activities (and ofshoots from
them) for everyones gain.
Explained in more detail here
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4xiNqWGe8
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAoxXegFhqY
This would...
1 create funds for charity
2 make charity more 'efficient'
3 boost your companies success rate with added goodwill
4 enable people who created your project to get rewarded financially
though performance pay while creating an organisation that is able to
provide a platform for goodwill collaboration where everyone is rewarded
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Traidmark.org represents a business model that rewards hard work with
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If this is possible I would love to work with you.
Ed Whyman
www.traidmark.org
www.whymandesign.com
This email and any attachments are confidential.
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string(14) "{content id= }"
["tagicon"]=>
string(15) "images/book.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(15) "images/book.gif"
}
[15]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "16"
["taglabel"]=>
string(12) "colored text"
["taginsert"]=>
string(16) "~~#FF0000:text~~"
["tagicon"]=>
string(21) "images/fontfamily.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(21) "images/fontfamily.gif"
}
[16]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "15"
["taglabel"]=>
string(11) "center text"
["taginsert"]=>
string(8) "::text::"
["tagicon"]=>
string(26) "images/ed_align_center.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(26) "images/ed_align_center.gif"
}
[17]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(2) "10"
["taglabel"]=>
string(3) "box"
["taginsert"]=>
string(6) "^text^"
["tagicon"]=>
string(19) "images/ed_about.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(19) "images/ed_about.gif"
}
[18]=>
array(6) {
["tagId"]=>
string(1) "1"
["taglabel"]=>
string(4) "bold"
["taginsert"]=>
string(8) "__text__"
["tagicon"]=>
string(25) "images/ed_format_bold.gif"
["tagcategory"]=>
string(4) "wiki"
["iconpath"]=>
string(25) "images/ed_format_bold.gif"
}
}
["forum_mode"]=>
string(1) "y"
["mid"]=>
string(26) "tiki-view_forum_thread.tpl"
["postclass"]=>
string(9) "forumpost"
["msg"]=>
string(991) "
